Well, it was a sea dog, and most of them have dubious reputations.
In a message dated 6/13/00 6:48:23 PM Central Daylight Time, Sherkin@AOL.COM writes:
Jean's post is indeed
most astute, and I apologize for speaking in some ignorance - the book has gone
back to the library - but it seems to me we are seeing some loaded POBian irony
here, namely:
Halevy (per the text she quoted) wants to see the village keep its
old ways: he was certainly not prepared for THIS reversion to old ways.
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 2:56 AM
"The Chian Wine" begins, "When first he came to Saint-Feliu the middle and
indeed the dark ages still hung about the streets, while the beach was
classical antiquity itself." (p. 137). Saint-Feliu, as Susan has already
mentioned, is also the setting for Patrick O'Brian's earlier novel "The
Catalans". Saint-Feliu is a town in French Catalonia; according to Dean
King's biography, it is a fictitious town based on PO'B's own Collioure.
"The Catalans" was set shortly after World War II: I'd say about 1947.
"Chian Wine" take place about a generation later, during or after the
pontificate of Pope John XXIII, during the Second Vatican Council. I'd
place the year of the story as 1963 (the year of John's death). As you'll
see in a moment, the date is significant. (A few years plus or minus would
not make a big difference, but if the story took place as late as, say,
1970, some of my date analysis below will not apply.)
The Saint-Feliu of "Catalans" sounds very much like the Saint-Feliu of
"Wine"'s first sentence: essentially timeless; with very small changes, and
none of them of central importance to the book, the novel could as soon take
place in 1847 or 1747 as 1947. I don't have a copy of "Catalans" to refer
to, but as far as I can tell, no characters from the novel appear again in
"Wine".
After the opening sentence, we see that the timeless "Saint-Feliu had
changed, changed almost out of recognition" as electricity, running water,
and, above all, tourists wrought their changes: "in high summer the
villagers wandered like strangers among the tourist hordes: out of an
obscure sense of shame the men had laid aside their red caps and broad
sashes and the women their white lace coiffes". The younger generation no
longer even speak "the ancient tongue" (presumably Catalan). (p. 140).
But before we hear of the changes to Saint-Feliu, we are told of the Chian
wine: 30 years (p.139) before the story's present, a fisherman named Joseph
pulled a "neat little jar" from the sea. He gave the jar to Alphard (the
story's central character; the "he" of the opening sentence) as a present.
Inside the jar was wine "or at least a liquid of some sort" made by
Aristolochus of Chios; the wine is "at least two thousand" years old
(p.142). Alphard leaves the unbroken jar of wine among his books, planning
to try it some day when he has good news.
After the narrative of the changes to the village, the story drifts into a
dialogue between Alphard and Halévy, "an Avignon Jew who had recently opened
a small gallery outside the sea gate, not far from the church" (p.141)
Alphard argues that "the spirit of the place is quite unaltered", (p.140)
but Halévy disagrees: "No," he says, "it breaks my heart to contradict you,
but these people have lost their sense of beauty. The
doctored wine alone, and what they buy from me, must convince you of that.
Here too the past has died: two thousand years of
tradition have died! There is no bridge between the jet-age and the past."
Alphard argues that the Church is one bridge between the past and present.
(p.141)
Halévy announces that he shall go to Gosol "where a man tells me his cousin
has a Romanesque Virgin he might sell. I doubt the story very much. A true
twelfth-century Virgin is scarcely to be hoped for today -- all that were
portable have already been sold. But I shall go: I love those strong,
pitiless faces, even when they are fakes." (p. 142)
On Good Friday, Alphard attend two church services: the first is in the
morning, and is celebrated by "a foolish young Dominican rattling away - an
involved, enthusiastic sermon about ecumenism." Innovations designed to
make the service easier to understand make it less so: the friar's voice is
distorted by the new electrical loudspeakers, and he is speaking in the
vernacular, but the wrong vernacular (French rather than Catalan), rather
than the universal Latin. (p. 142)
Alphard's attention wanders. It is hot and there are flies in the church
and Alphard mutters to himself, "frying in Hell .. frying in Hell."
"He [Alphard] had had the greatest respect and affection
for John XXIII as a man, but as pope he thought
him utterly disastrous - the results of his actions were utterly disastrous.
Temerity, wild zeal, enthusiasm... Could it really be true
that he was a freemason, a Communist?" (pp. 142-143)
Note that I am using this scene to date this story. The Second Vatican
Council began during the pontificate of Pope John XXIII and continued into
the reign of Pope Paul XI. The use of the vernacular in the story and the
evident thinking of a New Church vs. an Old Church suggests a late date, but
Alphard's reference to John in the present tense ("as pope he thought him"
and "actions were utterly disastrous", rather than "as pope he had thought
him" and "actions had been utterly disastrous") suggest that John is still
living: therefore I think this story takes place on Good Friday, 1963.
(John died in the summer of 1963, a few months after). As I understand it,
the vernacular Novus Ordo mass ("New Order" mass; the current liturgy) was
not mandated until the late 1960s, but the Tridentine mass (the traditional
Latin mass adopted at the Council of Trent during the Catholic
Counter-Reformation; Tridentine is the adjective form of Trent) began to be
celebrated in certain areas in the vernacular in the early '60s.
After the service, Alphard was surprised to find Halévy back at his gallery:
"he had found no Madonna -- four hundred miles in pursuit of a myth -- and
that he was profoundly discouraged." Alphard invites him to sample
his Chian wine that evening at half past six (i.e., after the evening
vespers) and Halévy accepts. Then Halévy tells Alphard, "The municipality
has forbidden sardines to be grilled in the street: it seems the tourists do
not like the smell." Alphard, enraged, responds, "They may forbid until they
grow black in the face. The past will have its rights. The past will rise up
and have its rights." (p.144)
Later that day, Alphard prepares his room for his guest, then goes to the
evening vespers. During the service, Alphard glances about the church at
"the shrouded form of Saint Eulalie" and "the instruments of the Passion"
(p. 145).
St. Eulalie was an early Christian virgin and matyr. She was burned alive
in A.D. 304 for refusing to repudiate her faith.
The vespers are being led by the old curé. After psalms and antiphons
"followed their universal course" (universal = catholic; I'm assuming this
part is in Latin) "and then the ancient local variation began, in the
vernacular" (not French now, but Catalan, and perhaps an archaic form of
Catalan). (p. 145)
The curé holds his audience in rapt attention as he repeats an elaborate
allegory, identical from year to year, about a lion, representing the
Church, and a sole ass, which resists him. Then the curé explains each part
of the allegory: "The sharp crooked claws are vengeance against the Jews;
and the ass, who is the evil ass but the Jews? With the terrible face of a
lion He will appear to the Jews when He judges them, for they damned
themselves ... For they damned themselves: the Jews betrayed their king." A
pause and then the horrific conclusion: "Death to the Jews!" and all the
congregation cry out, "Death to the Jews" and instantly a sort of Mardi Gras
begins, with the children rushing out of the church with "rattles, whistles,
saucepans, drums" while the curé concludes. (p. 146)
Alphard heads back to his house and sees "a dense crowd, an impenetrable
swarm -- every youth and child in Saint-Feliu" and realizes "something was
terribly amiss". (p.146) At the front of the mob of children are "half a
dozen great boys swinging a baulk of wood, a launching stretcher from the
beach" which they use as a battering ram to break into Halévy's gallery.
"All round the edge there were women screaming, grasping at their own
children: astonished men and dogs came running." The children break into
the gallery, with Halévy inside: he fires an antique gun into the crowd. A
moment of confusion, then diesel-oil from a pump on the nearby beach is
sprayed into the gallery "and the flames shot up, straight into the windless
air". The men arrive and turn off the pump and Halévy sees a small girl
"who had not yet understood the change, a child that danced still,
marvelling at the fire, waving her ratttle and chanting 'Death, death to the
Jews.'"
"The Chian Wine" is remarkably similar to "The Walker". Again it seems
there
is a demoniac possession culminating in murder; but whereas in "The Walker"
it was a single individual who was possessed, in "Wine" it is all the young
people of the village. Again there is a focus on the Passion in the
build-up to the murders.
Note the similar "crimes" of the Albères in "Walker" and the Jews in
"Wine".
From "Walker":
"Clearly I knew it was not for the murder I had been sent: no, no; it was
for accidie. These wicked people had despaired of all
forgiveness: they had hardened their hearts, and for that last wickedness
they were to be destroyed in this world as they were
already damned in the next." (p.79)
In other words, the Albères have already doomed themselves: the walker is
just the instrument of their self-damnation. Similarly, in "Wine", the curé
declares, "For they damned themselves: the Jews betrayed their king... Death
to the Jews!" (p. 146)
A similar theme of spiritual self-immolation was sounded in The Catalans:
"I will tell you what I mean by the death of the soul. When you no longer
have the power to love, when there is no stir of affection anywhere in your
being, then your soul is dead. That is the death of your soul. Your soul is
dead, and you are damned: you are dead walking, and you are in hell in your
own body." (Catalans, p. 96)
Similar themes throughout: spiritual withdrawral from the external links of
love and intimacy (the Albères withdraw from the society of their small
village, the Jews separate themselves from their King, Xavier in "Catalans"
ceases to love his son), leading to accidie (spiritual despair) and the
death of the soul,
auto-damnation, which leaves one as a walking deadman.
There are both positive and negative forces leading to the attack at the
end. The positive are the dark impulses within the souls of the villagers:
these impulses are demoniac, neo-pagan, pre-Christian impulses, the
embodiment and manifestation of Original Sin, and are encouraged and
symbolized by the lion and ass allegory and by the Chian wine. The negative
forces
are the restrainsts which have kept the dark impulses in check: one by one
we see the restraints broken, until the forces of darkness are able to break
through.
First, let's look at the breakdown of the old restraints:
Amongst the villagers in "Wine" we can see the breakdown of the old order:
the villagers abandon their custons, their clothes, even their language: all
the ties of their society built up over generations, and with each broken
tie is gone one more restraint.
Still the blows come: the unchanging
Catholic Church herself (to believers the rock against which the forces of
Hell will not prevail) seems
to be declining. Finally, even the public grilling of the sardines is to be
forbidden. Gone is their old connection to one another, and their very
sense of self-identity: it is perhaps not too much to see the village
entering into a state of social accidie.
For the older villagers, there is at least the memory of former things to
tie them together: to the children there is nothing at all. In this
context, the unchanging allegory to the older villagers may be conservative,
that is, an unchanging custom that cements a common sense of experience and
that serves to restrain impulses, but to the children, who are empty
vessels, the allegory is suggestive and inflaming: they respond to the
hatefulness present in the allegory, rather than the common experience of
hearing the same thing, year after year.
The story takes place on Good Friday, which is the day of the death of
Jesus. On this day, the images of the crucified Jesus in churches are taken
down, or, if
they are too large, are covered. More importantly, in Catholic services
this day, there is no consecration (under the Catholic doctrine of
transubstantiation, consecration is the transformation of the bread and wine
into the literal body and blood of Christ). In sum, this is a time of a
great
spiritual vacuum: God is dead (not to rise up again until Easter Sunday),
Christ is present neither symbollically (in the images) or physically (in
the bread and wine).
There is perhaps another symbolic loss of Christ in the forbidding of the
sardines to be grilled in the streets. (Sardines = Fish = a common symbol
of Christ).
Not only is Christ missing, Mary is missing as well. Halévy's 400 mile
quest to find a statue of her turns up fruitless.
It is important to realize the importance of Marian protection in Catholic
devotion: her protection extends not to the just alone, but to sinners as
well, and most especially. ("Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us
sinners..."
is one line from
the "Hail Mary").
Here is Henry Adams on this concept:
"To her, every suppliant was a universe in himself, to be judged apart, on
his own merits, by his love for her, -- by no means on his orthodoxy, or his
conventional standing in the Church, or according to his correctness in
defining the nature of the Trinity. The convulsive hold which Mary to this
day maintains over human imagination -- as you can see at Lourdes -- was due
much less to her power of saving soul or body than to her sympathy with
people who suffered under law, -- divine or human, -- justly or unjustly, by
accident or design, by decree of God or by guile of the Devil. She cared
not a straw for conventional morality, and she had no notion of letting her
friends be punished, to the tenth or to any other generation, for the sins
of their ancestors or the pecadilloes of Eve."
(Henry Adams, Mont-Saint-Michel and Chartres, pp. 276-277)
Nor is this protection entirely otherworldly. Marian protection was
commonly believed to be the key to the Christian victories over the Ottomans
at Lepanto and Vienna. In more recent times, Pope John Paul II publicly
attributed his survival of the 1981 assassination attempt to Marian
intervention: "it was a mother's hand that guided the bullet's path and in
his throes the Pope halted at the threshold of death" (John Paul II, May 13,
1994, 13th anniversary of the assassination attempt).
But after his pilgrimage in "Wine", Halévy finds no Maddona: "four hundred
miles in pursuit of a myth" (p.144)
Now for the positive forces leading towards the attack:
First there is the allegory, with its ending: "For
they damned themselves: the Jews betrayed their king... Death to the Jews!"
It need hardly be said that this is anti-Semitic, but curious even for
anti-Semitism, because it is internally inconsistent: the Jews have already
damned themselves. There's no reason given at all for wishing them dead: it
won't do them any good, nor is there any suggestion that they are doing evil
to others, either by spreading their errors or doing any of the other crimes
variously ascribed to Jews over the years (killing Christian babies, etc.).
The first part is curiously restrained (the Jews have harmed only themsleve)
and the second part suggests an action or a wish out of all proportion to
the charges in the first.
The statement is also extremely dark and pessimistic for both Jews AND
Christians. The Jews' damnation is shown as final and irrevocable: there is
no suggestion that they can avoid their fate by, e.g., converting to
Christianity. And look again at their crime: they betrayed THEIR king.
Surely, to a Christian, this should be OUR king. What is subtly suggested
is the
worst of all worlds: God (the God of Jews and Christians) is strictly a
tribal god, offering salvation only to his chosen people, who have rejected
it irrevocably. There is no suggestion of a New Covenant, of extending the
promise of salvation to all people. No, there is no salvation for the Jews,
no salvation for the Christians: it's damnation all around.
This is, as I said, an extremely pessimistic message, difficult to reconcile
with even the most bigoted conception of Christianity.
Now to the lion and the ass: for some information on the
Christian bestiary (symbolic meaning of animals in art), see the following
articles from the 1907 Catholic Encyclopedia:
"The Bestiary":
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02529b.htm
"Animals in Christian Art" :
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01515b.htm
The ass is an unusual figure in Christian symbolism. The use of the ass in
the context of the allegory makes sense as a representation of obstinacy,
but it is also interesting since it suggests an appeal to the calumny of
onolatry (a useful phrase I picked up recently from the article below:
onolatry means ass-worship), or the charge common in Roman times that Jewish
religious practices included the worship of an ass; however, the Roman
charge of onolatry also extended to Christians: a well known anti-Christian
mural shows a caricature of Christ on a cross with the head of an ass.
For more on this subject, see
"The Ass (in Caricature of Christian Beliefs and Practices)", again from the
1907 Catholic Encyclopedia:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01793c.htm
The lion as a symbol of the Catholic Church is again unusual. As noted in
"Animals in Christian Art", the lion was used symbolically to represent
both Christ and the Devil, but its use for such diametrically opposite
figures shows its meaning was not universally established. The most common
symbol for Christ was the fish; also common were the lamb and the dove. In
common usage, the lion is often used as a symbol of strength and power.
Among other things, the lion was the symbol of Babylon. (A fine example of
the Babylonian lion may be seen at the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston.) To a
Christian, the most common connotations of the lion would be as an enemy of
Christianity (the Christian matyrs being sacrificied to the lions, Daniel in
the lion's den (Daniel was a an Old Testament Jew, whom Christians would
consider their spiritual ancestor)).
In sum, the imagery of the lion and the ass seem strange in a Christian
allegory, since both animals have anti-Christian connotations.
My theory is that the allegory pre-dates the arrival of Christianity in the
region. The
animals originally had different meanings -- it was perhaps even an
anti-Christian allegory originally -- and at some point in the past the
current meanings to the animals were clumsily added.
There is perhaps a clue to this in PO'B's description of the allegory as the
"ancient local
variation" (p. 145). The word "ancient" elsewhere in this story seems to
indicate pre-Christian times; e.g., "It was here on the beach that the
ancient world showed purest: with his back to the town he could forget the
two or three thousand intervening years." (p.138) Ancient = 2,000 or 3,000
years previous.
It was on the ancient beach, where the boats "with pagan symbols on their
bows" lie (p.138), that a fisherman first handed Alphard the jar containing
the Chian wine, which is "at least two thousand years" old (p.142), i.e.,
from before the Christian era.
I believe the significance of the Chian wine
is that is the bringing forth into the modern world a mentality and spirit
that is pre-Christian and pagan. In a world without Christ or the old
traditions,
this revived paganism is able to fill the spiritual vacuum.
The beach is clearly shown as the source of evil later in the story: the
children take the battering ram from the beach to break into Halevy's
gallery; the diesel pump that fuels the final fire is on the beach as well.
Alphard receives the jar from this beach thirty years before the story's
present. Note the
parallel with "The Walker": the (apparent) murder and robbery of the priest
took place thirty years before "The Walker"'s present (p. 77).
In "The Walker", the beach was the place where the walker found the German
sailor's pelvic bone and the cheap ring with the swastika on it. Now (and
here's where my date speculation above is relevant), if "Wine"'s present is
1963, the Chian wine would have been retrieved in 1933 (30 years before),
the year of the National Socialist ascension to power in Germany.
So the beach in both stories is associated with Nazism, which was itself a
neo-pagan revival in the modern world (what Pope Pius XI called "that
so-called pre-Christian Germanic conception of substituting a dark and
impersonal destiny for the personal God" in his 1937 encyclical Mit
brennender Sorge)
This dating also accounts for another seeming anomoly in "Wine" noted
earlier by Don Seltzer. Don wrote:
"A minor point, but Alphard came to the village and was given the wine
thirty years earlier. However, he had been attending this special service
for only twenty years. Was this particular sermon really ancient, or did it
begin just twenty years earlier?"
The actual language used is "the ceremony was perfectly familiar to him
[Alphard] now, although it had seemed so strange twenty years ago" (p.145).
Again, starting with 1963 as the present, 20 years earlier would have been
1943, which we can fudge a bit and call 1943/1944. In those years, when the
evidence of the mass deaths of Jews in the Nazi concentration camps was
being revealed, the allegory, with its "Death to the Jews" conclusion, may
have sounded altogether different (stranger) than it did in previous years.
Then the story's conclusion: Good Friday 1963. With all the old restraints
broken down, Alphard decides to open the Chian wine and share with Halévy.
"I should be very happy," says Halévy, unknowingly. "Thank you. Such a
privilege." (p. 144)
Some foreshadowing in the two church ceremonies (I don't know whether they
can properly be called masses, since there is no consecration): the church
is thick with flies (Lord of the Flies, one of the titles of Satan) (p. 142,
p.145); Alphard mutters to himself, "Frying in Hell ...frying in Hell"
(p.142); the mention of St. Eulalie (p.145).
Then comes the attack at exactly the hour set to open the Chian wine. (This
is speculation, actually: Alphard and Halévy are to meet at half past six,
which is clearly after the evening vespers, though not necessarily
immediately after).
When the children attack, "the door gave way" (p.147), like the cork being
pulled off the bottle.
Then comes the deadly "jet of diesel oil" (p.147). And what does this
resemble but the stream from a champagne bottle when the cork has been
pulled off, but with inverted imagery, so that the white champage is now
black diesel?
(It also resembles ejaculation, reminiscent of the psycho-sexual suggestions
of the climactic murders at the end of "The Walker")
Then, with the genie out of the bottle, as it were, the rest is inevitable:
conflagration, smoke, and an unknowing girl, dancing smiling, and
marvelling.
Thus on the day of the unconsecrated wine comes the fruit of opening the
Chian wine.
John Finneran
From: Gary W. Sims
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 12:44 AM
From: "John Finneran"
Amongst the villagers in "Wine" we can see the breakdown of the old order:
the villagers abandon their custons, their clothes, even their language: all
the ties of their society built up over generations, and with each broken tie
is gone one more restraint.
And isn't POB's image of the consequence a disturbing one to place beside the
book "Bowling Alone?" I will include a URL to the editorial review of that scholarly
book at Amazon.Com, but I suspect it's too long to use easily, and it may be
better to run a search for the title under "books" for yourself:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684832836/qid%3D964769901/103-195007
1-6991029
Gary W. Sims, Major, USAF(ret)
--------------------------------------------
Glad to have a community
At or about 34°42' N 118°08' W
From: u1c04803
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 5:59 AM
From: "John Finneran"
"The Chian Wine" begins, "When first he came to Saint-Feliu the middle
and indeed the dark ages still hung about the streets, while the beach was classical
antiquity itself." (p. 137). snips
Thank you very much for this, John.
Note that I am using this scene to date this story. The Second Vatican
Council began during the pontificate of Pope John XXIII and continued into the
reign of Pope Paul XI. The use of the vernacular in the story and the evident
thinking of a New Church vs. an Old Church ETC
The "New" Church v. the "Old" Church is treated in the Aubrey/Maturin works
also, at least twice: once when Stephen enters a church and is comforted by
the "universal" language--and the knowledge that one can enter a church
anywhere in the world and be confident that the same ritual in the same
vernacular will be available. Maybe Chris knows exactly where this occurs.
Also, in Treason's harbor, the same idea is expressed symbolically. Stephen
meets Wray in St. Simon's where they have both gone to hear plainchant, Pp.
56-59, and the French desecration of the church is discussed, since the
French have stripped the gussied up structure of its marble and precious
stone facades, and wantonly left it stark and unadorned. "Yet, this was not
without its advantages. The acoustics were much improved, and as they stood
there among the dim, bare stone or brick arches the choir-monks might have
been chanting in a far older church, a church more suited to their singing
than the florid Renaissance building the French had found. Their abobot was
a very aged man...and now his frail but true old voice drifted through the
half-ruined aisles pure, impersonal, quite detached from worldly things..."
Lois
From: Philip Sellew
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 6:31 AM
Lois reminds me that when I read this passage last I was reminded of Garry
Wills' book on the modern (?) Catholic church, Bare Ruined Choisr:
Also, in Treason's harbor, the same idea is expressed symbolically. [snip]
"Yet, this was not without its advantages. The acoustics were much
improved, and as they stood there among the dim, **bare** stone or brick
arches the **choir**-monks might have been chanting in a far older church,
a church more suited to their singing than the florid Renaissance building
the French had found. Their abobot was a very aged man...and now his frail
but true old voice drifted through the half-**ruined** aisles pure,
impersonal, quite detached from worldly things..."
Philip Sellew
at or about 45 00 N 93 10 W
From: Don Seltzer
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 11:05 AM
Regarding "Chian Wine", I have one question which I believe I asked
previously. Is it not highly unusual for a devout Catholic to invite a
guest over to enjoy a special bottle of wine on Good Friday?
Don Seltzer
From: Jean A
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 12:08 PM
Thanks to John Finneran for his commentary on The Chian Wine.
He writes:
"In sum, the imagery of the lion and the ass seem strange in a Christian
allegory, since both animals have anti-Christian connotations."
But the symbol of St. Mark, one of the four Evangelists, is the winged lion,
which one can see all over Venice.
( I love the little lions that are tucked into a lot of unlikely places.)
I remember that the Venetians appropriated Mark's remains from somewhere
else and brought them to Venice.
In a previous post on The Chian Wine I pointed out that since the Second
Vatican Council called by John XXII, the Catholic Church has been excising
derogatory references to the Jews in its liturgies.
In the story, the young Dominican friar is preaching about the reforms, but
the old ladies of the village do not understand his French. Ironically, we
are told that the village dialect is more akin to Latin, which has elsewhere
been supplanted by vernacular languages, than to French.
So the village is shown to be somewhat insulated against the Church reforms
initiated in the 1960s.
Jean A.
From: Charlezzzz@AOL.COM
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 5:20 PM
Also, in Treason's harbor, the same idea is expressed symbolically. [snip]
"Yet, this was not without its advantages. The acoustics were much improved,
and as they stood there among the dim, **bare** stone or brick arches the **choir**-monks
might have been chanting in a far older church, a church more suited to their
singing than the florid Renaissance building the French had found. Their abobot
was a very aged man...and now his frail but true old voice drifted through the
half-**ruined** aisles pure, impersonal, quite detached from worldly things..."
Oh, that sneaky, treacherous POB--the hidden man of the world, with his reference
to one of Shakespeare's great poems on growing old, like the "very aged" abbot...
"That time of year thou mayst in me behold
When yellow leaves, or none, or few do hang
Upon those boughs that shake against the cold--
Bare, ruined choirs where late the sweet birds sang"
Of course Shakespeare himself is no slouch at the hidden reference, reminding
us of Henry VIII's seizures of the monasteries...and that, in turn, bumps up
against what the French have done to the church where Maturin and Wray find
themselves.
Charlezzzz
From: Philip Sellew
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 2:53 PM
Well sure, G. Wills's title is Shakespeare's line (and TH is after all
named for another). But Stephen's refelctions on the older/more modern
church in this passage still make me think more of Wills than of The Bard.
As you say, Chzzzz, the theme of age is in there too with the abbot, but in
my muddled memory don't we see the 'getting older' theme more with Jack, as
with Admiral Hartley in this same book (TH 2 acc. to PASC)? When Stephen
discusses age isn't it often to lecture Jack?
Philip Sellew
at or about 45 00 N 93 10 W
From: Charlezzzz@AOL.COM
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2000 7:06 PM
In a message dated 7/29/0 4:45:26 PM, selle001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU writes:
When Stephen discusses age isn't it often to lecture Jack?
Indeed, Jack clearly grows older as the books progress, but Stephen seems to
stay about the same age. Indeed, in evening one of chapter one of book one,
Jack looks at Stephen and thinks he cd be almost any age. And so he stays.
Charlezzzz, thinking that Diana wd age almost any man
From: Don Seltzer
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 9:40 AM
Subject: Chocolat Wine
Watching Chocolat last night, I was immediately reminded of POB's short
story "The Chian Wine". The insular French village, where everyone knew his
place and all outsiders and modern thoughts were suspect, could have been a
close cousin of POB's Saint Feliu/Collioure.
With the added elements of the Church's role in promoting intolerance, the
setting during Lent, and even the element of fire, I found myself dreading
what I thought might be a similarly tragic ending. And relevant to the
recent thread on winds, I noted the importance and symbolism of the
Northern wind in Chocolat, and the southern Sirocco in Chian Wine.
Don Seltzer
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